U.S. Army 4x2 ParaGator ATVs "Air-Meched" by CH-47D Chinook helicopter internal load into Afghanistan with the 101st Air Assault and 10th Mountain Division during Operation Anaconda. ParaGators carried vital supplies and most importantly 120mm mortars and ammuniton to enable high-angle plunging fires out to 7 kilometers to reach al Queda and Taliban fighters hiding behind rocky heights.www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/central/03/08/ret.savidge.hot.lz/index.html
Hot LZ
Heavy fighting ... the landing zone is still under attack ...
March 8, 2002 Posted: 9:28 AM EST (1428 GMT)Martin Savidge reports from the field for CNN on major breaking news stories and has anchored several of the network's regularly scheduled newscasts.
Editor's note: In our Behind the Scenes series, CNN correspondents share their experiences in covering news around the world.
By Martin Savidge
CNNBAGRAM AIR BASE, Afghanistan (CNN) -- It begins with a ringing bell.
Next comes the piercing whine of the CH-47's twin engines screaming to speed.
Wearing body armor, helmets and backpacks, my cameraman Scottie McWhinnie and I are forced to sit on the edges of the webbed seats. Seatbelts lie unused. There's no way to get them on with all our gear.
Beside us, the chopper's waist gunner warns us not to sit too close: He needs full range of motion to fire his machine gun. We sit alone in the cavernous behemoth as it stirs to life. Then the "gators" back in.
Gators are six-wheeled all-terrain vehicles. The sort used by groundskeepers at your local golf course. Instead of rakes and shovels, these gators carry 50-caliber machine guns and mortars.
Next come the Soldiers.
Hot LZ
Loaded down with weapons and bulging backpacks, they crawl over the gators, lying and sitting on them. They fill the side seats and then begin filling the space on the floor. One Soldier's pack is crushing my leg. He apologizes but there's nothing he can do about it. The helicopter feels packed to capacity even as the sergeants shout, "Move in!". Somehow more troops get on. The once-big helicopter now seems claustrophobic.
Liftoff
The boys are in high spirits and joke as the bird shudders into the air, heading toward "the box," the battle zone an hour and 10 minutes away.
They're part of the second wave of troops going in. This is D-Day for Operation Anaconda. Before we left, there had been reports of a few problems for the first wave. Now the radio operator gets on the combat net and relays what he hears like some play-by-play sportscaster.
"Heavy fighting ... four of the six Apache attack helicopters have been knocked out ... confirmed surface-to-air missile launch ... the LZ's hot!"
His words silence the laughter.
Inside the chopper the mood grows dark. Outside the sun sets.
The approach
We begin to weave between mountains at 100 mph, sometimes barely 10 feet off the ground, in a wild, dark roller-coaster ride. The Soldier next to Scottie shouts over the roar, asking if he has a plastic bag. Scottie hands one back and the Soldier vomits.
Suddenly the door gunner opens fire. The staccato of explosions momentarily drowns out the noise of the rotors and makes me jump. Soon the tail gunner joins in. We hear the whine of bullets whizzing past us as we hurtle forward.
"Fifteen minutes!" a crewman shouts.
Inside my head a mental clock starts counting down. In less than a quarter-hour we'll land in the hell the radio operator described. My leg hurts even more.
Inside the chopper it's nearly pitch black. The soldier's faces are green, lit by the glow of their night vision goggles.
"Ten minutes!"
I begin thinking of home, of my wife, of my children -- of anything but the landing zone: The LZ. Mountains covered in snow and dark valleys whirl by the gunner's window. No one talks.
"One minute! The LZ's hot!!"
Weapons cock.
"Fifty-nine, 58, 57," counts the voice in my head. My heart is racing. We strain to look out. I'm waiting for the bump of the wheels and the thud of the bullets. This is the part the soldiers hate. A chopper on the ground is a sitting duck. A mortar would spell disaster. Most of us would die where we're crammed.
Suddenly we veer off.
"It's too hot!" someone shouts. As we pull away I can see red tracer fire flaring across the valley below. I always had a bad feeling about this LZ, No. 13A. Unlucky.
We hover to see if the fighting will die down. It doesn't and we're low on fuel. The men shout to land, those are their friends fighting it out below. The bird careens off, heading for a forward refueling position. If we get more gas, we can try again.
Refueling
As we touch down, some of the men are in agony. Their bodies are cramping after more than three hours of flight, no way to move. Others have to go to the bathroom.
But no one is allowed out. It's a hot refuel. The blades never stop spinning. Time is critical. The LZ is still under attack, but fighter jets will try to cool things down. I dread another run.
We roar off again, only to set down minutes later. Confusion. Shouts of "What's going on?!" "Are we there?"
"Standby!" the crew calls back.
The radio chirps, "Return to base, the LZ's still too hot."
The Soldiers curse and groan. On the hour-long return flight, a medic passes a bottle so they can relieve themselves.
After four-and-a-half hours, we land where we started and stagger back to the tents.
I feel a sense of relief mixed with trepidation.
Soon we must try again.
Army Times
May 13, 2002
Pg. 16The Gator Gets Going: John Deere leaves lawns behind to become a heavy lifter in the cratered terrain of Afghanistan
By Matthew Cox, Times staff writer
KANDAHAR AIR BASE, Afghanistan A little vehicle made by John Deere is quickly becoming an effective alternative to the Humvee for light infantry Soldiers on combat operations in Afghanistan.
In 1999, units of the XVIII Airborne Corps began buying the Gator, a six-wheeled, all-terrain vehicle, for the rapid resupply of Soldiers in the field. It was intended to supplement the Humvee, which replaced the Jeep in the mid-1980s.
But on recent combat missions in Afghanistan, Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) preferred the Gator for its compact size and ability to haul 1,400 pounds of ammunition, water and medical supplies across the countrys unforgiving terrain.
"We deployed with 34 Gators in January. Since then, we have ordered 30 more," said Capt. Sean Davis, the logistics officer for 3rd Brigade of the 101st.
Units from the 101st and the 10th Mountain Division (Light Infantry) relied on the Gator during Operation Anaconda last March in Afghanistans eastern Shah-e-Kot Valley. When the operation kicked off March 2, the Gator air-assaulted in with the Soldiers.
The two-seat ATV can haul more than 1,400 pounds at an average speed of 15 mph. It also can mount an MK-19 grenade launcher or a .50-caliber machine gun in the rear cargo bed.
"This vehicle is meant to keep pace with dismounted troops in restricted terrain," Davis said. "We used them in Anaconda extensively, hauling rucksacks back and forth, allowing Soldiers to carry a lighter load."
Because of high altitudes, helicopters performed better with internal loads rather than sling-loading cargo on the outside, Davis said. The Gators size allows Soldiers to load two, and in some cases four, Gators, instead of one Humvee, aboard a CH-47 Chinook helicopter. And when the chopper lands, Soldiers quickly can drive the Gators off the helicopter, while the Humvee has to be de-rigged, which takes time, said Capt. Kevin Butler, commander of the 101sts A Company, 2nd Battalion, 187th Infantry Regiment.
During Anaconda, Butlers company was assigned to set up the northernmost blocking position in the valley.
"Its a pretty good platform," Butler said, and the only problems they experienced with the Gator came when they overloaded it. "We had like 2,700 pounds on it. So youve got to be fair to John Deere."
Improvements that could be made to the Gator, Soldiers said, include a beefier suspension and the capability to mount a weapon such as a squad automatic weapon in front of the passenger seat. But theres no need to make it go faster than 15 mph, Butler said, because that would increase the possibility of accidents.
"More speed would be good," he said, "but Joe would drive it at the maximum speed everywhere."
[Editor: Butler is wrong, the ParaGator needs more speed and its time we stop patronizing Joe and making him an adult instead of working around his Gen X/Y immaturity]
Gator Designer: John Deere and Henry Dreyfuss Associates
[The following articles came from U.S. Army SOLDIERS magazine, and Business Week online. The conclusion is ours]
The U.S. military is notorious for demanding custom-made, gold-plated equipment. But when Soldiers at the U.S. Army's elite rapid-reaction forces, based at Fort Bragg, N.C., tested the Gator--an inexpensive off-road utility vehicle for sale down at the local John Deere dealer--they loved it. ''It functions flawlessly in evacuating [wounded] soldiers from foxholes,'' says Colonel Frederick Gerber, commander of the 55th Medical Group (Airborne) at Fort Bragg. ''And I can buy eight [Gators] for the price of one Humvee.''
THE PARA-GATOR: AIR-DROPPABLE ALL-TERRAIN VEHICLE FOR THE U.S. ARMY AIRBORNE
www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/4-20.108/fm4-20.108.htm
FM 4-20.108 (FM 10-508)
TO 13C7-2-491Field Manual
No. 4-20.108
Technical Order
No. 13C7-2-491 Headquarters
Department of the Army
and the Air Force
Washington, DC, 29 June 2001FM 4-20.108/TO 13C7-2-491
AIRDROP OF SUPPLIES AND EQUIPMENT:
RIGGING MILITARY UTILITY VEHICLE (M-GATOR)The military is just the latest convert to be wowed by the Gator. The vehicle--in four- and six-wheel versions--is already being used by farmers, contractors, and sports teams, including the world champion Green Bay Packers, who haul around equipment and transport injured players to the locker room.
Jim Gibson of the U.S. Army's Material Command said this about the Para-Gator in SOLDIERS magazine: this medium-speed, All-Terrain Vehicle is being evaluated to determine its suitability for use by Airborne Soldiers during air-drop operations. It would be used to quickly and safely move ammunition and other equipment on the drop zone and to evacuate casualties. Gator is a more capable version of the "Mule," which served many uses on fire bases in Vietnam.
"Soldiers can de-rig the Gator from the drop platform much faster than they could a Humvee," Gibson said. It can get into tight areas where the Humvee ambulance cannot go, and it's safer to operate in the DZ environment because it has six high-floatation tires and virtually no ground pressure.
No wonder the judges saw the Gator as ''a classic case of strategic product planning,'' says juror Katherine McCoy of design firm McCoy & McCoy Associates. In designing the Gator, McCoy says, Deere and partner Henry Dreyfuss Associates ''identified some real needs that were not being met'' by existing products. She calls the result an entirely ''new product type,'' which, like Sony Corp.'s Walkman, has revolutionary potential to create new markets.
The Gator began in 1990, when Deere's design team, with partner Dreyfuss, was asked to develop an off-road utility vehicle that possessed both durability and pizzazz. To harden its durability, the prototype was subjected to 15,000 hours of off-road testing, from the broiling Arizona sands to the muck of Wisconsin marshes. The designers made it easy to operate. And for product personality, they broke with Deere tradition by giving it a name, Gator, rather than a model number, and a logo.
When the first Gators rolled out of Deere's Welland (Ont.) factory in 1993, even Deere dealers such as Richard Miller say they didn't know exactly how to market them. At first, ''I sold them mainly as toys for big boys,'' recalls Miller, whose dealership is near Nashville. But when customers ''began to realize how versatile this piece of equipment is,'' Miller adds, his sales took off. They're up 400% this year.
Now, Deere is expanding the Gator line. The new Turf Gator, which drives like a golf car and features high-flotation tires that don't mar delicate golf greens, helped it secure an exclusive contract to supply the PGA Tour's Tournament Players Clubs. The ''Med-Bed,'' a stretcher that can be quickly attached to the vehicle, helped win over the Packers. And the first Gator with a diesel engine opened up the military market. (This is the version that took the 1997 IDEA.) Deere cannibalized parts from existing products and used design-for-assembly to keep prices low, ranging from $5,800 to $9,425. This is design innovation at its best.
THE PARA-GATOR IN AIRBORNE BATTLE: THE CHICOM THREAT
"The Chinese have also developed the 35mm Type W-87 select-fire grenade launcher. Since its round is launched at less than 560 feet per second, this weapon would have to be placed in the medium-velocity category. Its maximum range is listed at 1,500 meters, with an effective range of 600 meters. Two types of ammunition are produced for the W-87--HE and HEAT (high explosive antitank). The HE round, consisting of an explosive charge surrounded by 400 3mm steel balls, has a casualty radius of approximately 10 meters. The shaped-charge round is said to be able to penetrate more than three inches of steel armor".Chinese Communist Type W-87 grenade launcher with 12-round drum magazine in place and QLZ87 35mm auto grenade launcher
What is surprising about the Type W-87 is the physical contrasts between it and the American and Russian grenade launchers. While the MK-19 and the AGS-17 are heavy, belt-fed, tripod or vehicle-mounted weapons, the W-87 is extremely light (26.4 pounds), magazine or drum-fed, and made to be fired from the shoulder (it has a pistol grip, buttstock, and integral bipod). It also has a tripod for ground use that is also designed to double as an antiaircraft mount. 
QLZ 87 35mm Automatic Grenade Launcher
Caliber: 35mm
Initial Muzzle Velocity: 190m/s
Effective range: ? m
Maximum range: 1750m
Ammo Capacity: 6 or 15 rounds
Rate of fire: ? rounds/minW87 35mm Automatic Grenade Launcher
Caliber: 35mm
Initial Muzzle Velocity: 170 m/s
Effective range: 600m
Maximum range: 1500m
Ammo Capacity: 6, 9 or 12 rounds
Rate of fire: 400 rounds/min
The tactical advantages of such a weapon for light infantry could be enormous."
---Stanley Crist, Infantry magazine, March-April 1995
The Chinese Communists have fielded TWO man-portable automatic grenade launchers, the W-87--and the QLZ 87 which can sweep the battlefield with small explosions, possibly pinning down Airborne Soldiers on the Drop and Landing Zones as they rush to aid Taiwan. One weapon we have to counter this is the 176-pound Mk-19 40mm grenade launcher, but it requires a vehicle to carry it and its ammunition. The John Deere Para-Gator vehicle can mount a MK-19 using the new M197 pedestal mount developed for the soft-top HMMWV cargo floor. The M197 is made by the RAMO Corporation of Tennnesse, and can mount the light M249 and Medium M60 or M240B medium machine guns as well. The M2 .50 caliber Heavy Machine Gun can also be fitted.
Last Dingo writes:
"I've finally got something new about automatic grenade launchers for dismounted uses; seems the SLWAGL from Singapore:
is the best; it even accepts Mk-19 ammo. They have an add-on kit for electronic time-fuzed grenades, so all you need to emulate a more powerful but minimal heavier OCSW TODAY is an off-the-shelf thermal viewer with 1500m effective range".
The M274 MULE missed by the Airborne could also transport a M40A2 106mm Recoilless Rifle which has been legendary at destroying hard targets like bunkers and buildings in combat. The 106mm is mounted on small vehicles from the MULE, Land Rovers and tracked AFVs like the M113 and the M50 Ontos depicted below. The British Airborne use the SupaCat with .50 cal HMGs and MK-19 40mm GMGs in a Dragoon, fire-support role from the drop zone. 
M197/M6 MOUNTS FOR PARA-GATOR CARGO BED
The M197 mount and M6 Pedestal are available from:
Ramo Manufacturing Inc.
412 Space Park S
Nashville, TN 37211-8104
(615) 832-6700
106mm Recoilless Rifles on M274 MULE The world is urbanizing, the Airborne fight only begins at the drop zone, continuing on into the cities----the Para-Gator could provide vital building busting fire support with its narrow size going where 7 foot 1 inch wide HMMWVs cannot, providing Heavy Machine, Auto-grenade cannon, and recoilless rifle SHOCK ACTION so we win like we did in Panama, not get pinned down like in Somalia. The MULE didn't just drive around drop zones in Vietnam, instead it went into the cities during the Tet Offensive to blast VC strong points. The Para-Gator is more than a way to scoot around the drop zone.
The Para-Gator can also make the M120 120mm heavy, M252 81mm Medium and M224 60mm Light mortar systems with the former's building roof busting power and 7200 meter range compatible with C-130 Hercules aircraft, by making two Para-Gator/120mms and trailers on airdrop platforms possible in every aircraft; along with their crews jumping behind them. Another possibility is using the extended range of tripod-fired Hellfire ATGMs moved by ParaGators for Paratroopers to seize and hold key terrain/mobility corridors like OPFOR does at NTC with manpack TOW ATGMs.
THE PARA-GATOR NEEDS IMPROVEMENT FOR FUTURE BATTLES
An Army 1SG just returned from Afghanistan, he wrote about the M-Gator:
"MGators, didn't hold up too good. They're a great thing to have when they're running. That place eats up tires pretty fast so take a bicycle pump for the tires when you go in, that will keep you rolling longer."
There is a solution to this since the Para-Gator tires are not that much larger than a bike or industrial cart's tires. These things have airless tires or inner tubes that could be expanded to be ATV tires, making the M-GATOR more durable for military use.
The following are 7 companies that make airless tire type systems:
Air Free Tires, Inc.
(800) 771-9513
386 478-1861
info@airfreetires.com
www.airfreetires.comAmerityre
705 Yucca Street
Boulder City, Nevada 89005
(800) 808-1268
FAX (702) 294-3873
info@amerityre.com
www.amerityre.comKIK Tire, Inc.
590 Airport Road
Oceanside, CA, USA 92054
KIKTIRE@AOL.COM
www.kiktire.com/co_profile.htmlCyclo Manufacturing Company
1438 South Cherokee Street
Denver, Colorado 80223-3211
Tel: 303-744-8043 or 800-525-0701
www.nomorflats.com/html/about.htmlNu-Teck
Englewood, CO
(281) 376-3713
FAX: (832) 717-4577
info@nu-teck.com
www.nu-teck.com/Default.htmGreentyre USA, Inc.
PO Box 1817
Shelter Island, NY 11964
tel: 888-GRN-TYRE
fax: 804-344-8179
sales@greentyre.com
www: www.greentyre.com/english/index.htmlwww.toobz.co.uk/
I'm sure if you contacted them and gave them the details about the PARA-GATOR's tires they could possibly make some tires for you to test on your vehicle. You could determine which one works best and then offer it to the rest of Uncle Sam....
In fact, 1st Tactical Studies Group (Airborne) Director, Mike Sparks contacted the anti-weapons mount pacifistic, John Deere company with the suggestion that they improve the Para-Gator's flimsy, air-filled rubber tires.
First the "release form" he sent in:
Subj: M-GATOR needs airless tires!
Date: 09/03/20024:05:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: Dynmicpara
To: whitacrecynthiam@johndeere.comDear Cynthia,
A mend of mine just returned from Afghanistan, he wrote about the M-Gator:
"MGators, didn't hold up too good. They're a great thing to ha~ when they're running. That place eats up tires pretty fast so take a bicycle pump for the tires when you go in, that will keep you rolling longer."
There is a solution to this since the M-GATOR tires are not that much larger than a bike or industrial cart's tires. These things haw airiess tires or inner tubes that could be expanded to be M-GATOR tires, making the M-GATOR more durable for military use.
The following are 7 companies that make airless tire type systems:
Air Free Tires, Inc.
(800) 771-9513 386 478-1861 info@airfreetires.com www.airfreetires.comAmerityre 705 Yucca Street Boulder City, Nevada 89005 (800) 808-1268 FAX (702) 294-3873 info@amerityre.com www.amerityre.com
KIK Tire, Inc.
590 Airport Road Oceanside, CA, USA 92054 KIKl1RE@AOL.COM
www.kiktire.com/co....profile.htmlCyclo Manufacturing Company
1438 South Cherokee Street Denver, Colorado 80223-3211 Tel: 303-744-8043 or 800-525-0701 www.nomorflats.com/htmllabout.htmlNu-Teck Englewood, CO (281) 376-3713 FAX: (832) 717-4577 info@nu-teck.com www.nu-teck.com/Default.htm
Greentyre USA, Inc.
PO Box 1817 Shelter Island, NY 11964 tel: 888-GRN-TYRE fax: 804-344-8179 sales@greentyre.com www: www.greentyre.com/englishlindex.htm! www.toobz.co.uklI'm sure if you contacted them and gave them the details about the M-GATOR's tires they could possibly make some tires for you to test on a M-GATOR. You could determine which one works best and then offer it to Uncle Sam....
Airborne!
LT Mike Sparks USAR
Of couse the John Deere reply was....NO REPLY AT ALL! Why change? You are making millions off the tax payers and constantly busting tires = MORE CORPORATE PROFITS FOR JOHN DEERE!!!!
www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/article.cfm?Id=845 Ultra-Light Gator Gets Heavy Backing in Combatby Roxana Tiron
The Armys program office for light tactical wheeled vehicles is drafting a requirements document that would eventually lead to the acquisition of the ultra-light, all-terrain truck known as the Gator.
The vehicle gained vast popularity in Afghanistan, because its small enough at 1,600 pounds that Soldiers found manifold applications for it. We used it for everything from hauling ammunition to hauling casualties, it fits onto the Chinook helicopter without having to take the troops seats out. ... You can fit two or three in a Chinook, said Staff Sgt. Anthony Franke, from the 101st Airborne Division. He spoke to National Defense during the 2002 Joint Services air show at Andrews Air Force Base, Md.
The manufacturer of the Gator, John Deere & Co., already is selling the vehicle to Army, National Guard and special operations units, even though the Gator is not officially an Army acquisition program. The units are purchasing the $14,000 vehicles with their own discretionary operations and maintenance (O&M) funds.
We are currently working with the Army Reserves on a plus up to fund an urgent requirement for M [military] Gators to support their homeland security mission, said Dan Smith, a Deere & Co. executive.
He explained that the M-Gator was conceived jointly by Deere and the Army XVIII Airborne Corps, to replace the M274 Mule, popular with light forces during the Vietnam War.
The acquisition of the Humvee in the mid-1980s, Smith said, meant the loss of the Mule, the M151 Jeep and the 3/4 ton truck, leaving the Soldier with no capability to carry loads and provide medical evacuation in small areas of operation such as a drop zone or a battalion support area.
Most of the Army Gators, he said, have been purchased with O&M funds, with some help from Congress. The Special Operations Command also has bought several vehicles.
Franke, the Air Assault Soldier, explained that the Gator is good for getting into little tight places like a stand of trees for example, where you might have an infantry company sitting, or a platoon, and you want to bring them their chow or ammo around.
The vehicle, he added, works great for light infantry support. It is a lot quieter than a Humvee. We have had guys strap a machine gun onto the front of it. ... We can use it to haul ammo up from an ammo dump to a forward mortar team, for example. They can haul it up real quick.
But Franke explained that the Gator has some significant limitations too. It is kind of slow, he said. The thing only goes 15 miles an hour. ... It is a little more than a tough golf cart. It does have the capability to act like a dump truck, so to speak, because the bed does tilt so if you had a whole load of dirt for sand bags you can do that with it. It is also more than a golf cart, because it is all four-wheel drive.
However, he added, I wouldn't call it more mobile than a Humvee, because a Humvee can get into the deep mud and into nasty stuff, and I would not take a Gator into that.
A Soldier from the 75th Ranger Regiment, who requested that he not be quoted by name, said the Gator is loud, noisy and goes too low to the ground. Its a golf cart, it is used for administrative purposes. It can only get used on dirt roads. Four-wheelers do a much better job.
Phil Mengs, deputy program manager for light tactical wheeled vehicles, said its not certain yet whether or when the Gator will become an official Army acquisition requirement. We are still working on a future acquisition strategy, he said. Once we get the requirement complete, we will put together the acquisition strategy.
The Para-Gator can even fit inside the pathetically tiny V-22 Osprey tilt-rotor aircraft, so U.S. Army SOF units and USAF Pararescue units can fight from the landing zone with a vehicle-sized weapon and not just a hand weapons-only disadvantage. Had Cpt Scott O'Grady been surrounded by foes with even a single bargain-basement Russian armored car, the daylight gyrene rescue would have been cancelled or another Desert One-type flaming disaster.While the Airborne still needs an ARMORED FIGHTING VEHICLE like the M113A3 Gavin or German Wiesel to replace the shock effect lost when the M551 Sheridan was retired and the M8 Buford Armored Gun System was cancelled, the Para-Gator as a weapons platform and not a mere logistics vehicle can give us the means to bring decisive weapons effects to bear NOW without requiring an inclusion into the Army budget to Congress. The future of war is AIRBORNE, the sooner we realize this truth, the sooner we can maximize our force structure that comes from the sky and controls the peace---on the ground.
By William C. Symonds in Toronto for Business Week
Heike Hasenauer for SOLDIERS magazine, December 1997
PHOTO: John Deere Gator
Tactical Enhancements: 1st TSG (Airborne)
FEEDBACK!
A superb Army Combat Developer writes:
"I seem to recall seeing something about these Grenade Machine Guns before (maybe it was the Russian model). Same thing as our MK-19, really, but smaller projectile and hence, less filling (that's a pun). Magazine-feed definitely weird feature, unless they use it as a close-in anti-APC ambush weapon. If you want effective fire support, you need lots of rounds. 9-15 grenades seems hardly worth it. Oh well.
Now don't get me wrong; GMGs are very useful within their limitations. The problem is when people think of them as wonder weapons.
Armor school once had a running fight with Infantry School about the MK-19 as an ANTI-ARMOR weapon. Benning contended the following:
1. 40mm grenade has a 1500 meter effective range (unstated though was "against area targets"). I concur.
2. 40mm high explosive dual purpose (HEDP)(actually a small shaped charge)will penetrate BMP armor. I concur.
3. Therefore, MK 19 with 40mm HEDP can kill light armor at 1500 meters. --------Horsefeathers!!---------You cannot hit a BMP at 1500 meters. The time of flight is about 15 seconds, and the rounds are falling straight down, so if you are 6 feet off, you miss! And let's not forget good old round to round dispersion. And, if a miracle occurs and you actually hit the BMP, what have you done? Sure, the roof gets punched and any poor grunt in the path of the HEAT jet just had his day ruined (40 rubles Ruski SGLI for family in Taszkent), but have you actually immobilized, let alone killed the BMP? Not likely.
Benning was trying to sell the MK-19 to everyone as the greatest thing in land warfare and wanted it as the flex mount weapon to replace the .50 Heavy Machine Gun on trucks, tanks, APCs, even mortar carriers. The last was the best, claiming that the MK-19 will work once the enemy is too close and inside the mortar's effective range. The idea that maybe the mortar should have displaced to another position, was simply ignored.
Another great 'selling point' was the MK-19 for rear area security. Now think about it. Do you really want the two mechanics and one cook pulling guard duty around the field trains to have the ability to loose a burst of indirect fire at night into the general direction of noises a kilometer or two away?
They finally reached a gentlemen's agreement that Benning can market it to whomever, and Knox will not oppose it, but keep it out of the tank battalion. Not on the tank, not on the APCs, not on the trucks in the trains, not in the TOC area, nowhere within the tank battalion!! This was agreed to, at least back then.
As I said in my earlier message, I see no problem with a MK-19 on a "gun motor carriage" as a fire support weapon. Just have a dedicated full crew (not an extra duty tasking) and lots and lots of ammo."
Private Murphy's View
